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Overall DPS vs Crit Dmg

xy44xy44
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edited August 3 in Class Discussion
Ok anyone want to shed some light on this.

For example, Ive been changing my ranger to be more powerfull in the spire. (I cant get past floor 25) Always get to the same point with about 3 mins remaining.. and I run out of time. - simple fact.. from floor 21 to 24 I just cant kill the bosses fast enough.

Now I know the Spire has a debuff, so it reduces the dmg we do.. no matter what setup I choose I always end the same floor with the same amount of time.. with more or less the same score.

2 Examples to show here.

First few weeks was running with max DPS (Overall dmg) - so All my seals were more geared towards Overall attack. - I had 26K DPS but 3200 Crit Dmg...

2nd setup was I changed all seals to Crit Damage. so my overall DPS went down but my Crit Dmg obv went up, was like 21K dmg but 6523 Crit
both setups running at 95% crit rate.

Confused as to what approach is better, and can some shed some light as to how the figures are worked out?

Is Overall attack pre crit? and your critical is a multiplication of your crit damage? if so then it does not make sence looking at the random numbers of the DMG I do.. (way to varied to tell, or figure how it works)

Comments

  • YllmathirYllmathir
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    edited August 3
    With your damage you should reach 30th floor or such.
    My ranger with karasha and full elite seals reach 20th floor (11.5k+2950 crit.dmg and 50% crit in spire) so uhm.. maybe your approach is wrong?

    Anyway should be attack*crit multiplier + flat crit.dmg.
    I don't remember the multiplier but should be around 2.5 or 3x.
  • yvadimyvadim
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    edited August 3
    most visible how this works is through very low attack skill e.g. assassin's dagger throw is around 0 dps. But when it crits (85% chance tops) you can see numbers of flat crit dmg + some random number in a range of 0 to skill attack * multiplier to my memory.
  • xy44xy44
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    edited August 3
    Yllmathir wrote: »
    With your damage you should reach 30th floor or such.
    My ranger with karasha and full elite seals reach 20th floor (11.5k+2950 crit.dmg and 50% crit in spire) so uhm.. maybe your approach is wrong?

    Anyway should be attack*crit multiplier + flat crit.dmg.
    I don't remember the multiplier but should be around 2.5 or 3x.

    I dont understand how my approach can be wrong though.. at least I figured that at beginning. - I zoom through the first 15 like a speeding bullet, before It slows down then once I hit Pirate King it slows down considerably. - Im using all my available attacks so its not like Im just stabbing away with one attack. - My defence is fine as I dont get hit often. Im constantly attacking.. so yeah.. really not sure.

    When in spire, my crit is always about 1.5-2k dmg, then super crit of 57-70K damage constant.. (more and less depending on what attack used)
  • NeoseptemNeoseptem
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    edited August 3
    xy44 wrote: »
    I dont understand how my approach can be wrong though.. at least I figured that at beginning. - I zoom through the first 15 like a speeding bullet, before It slows down then once I hit Pirate King it slows down considerably. - Im using all my available attacks so its not like Im just stabbing away with one attack. - My defence is fine as I dont get hit often. Im constantly attacking.. so yeah.. really not sure.

    When in spire, my crit is always about 1.5-2k dmg, then super crit of 57-70K damage constant.. (more and less depending on what attack used)

    Good ol' Pirate King, gave me a headache at first too.
    For every of his minions you kill he receives a buff which makes him harder to kill.
    If you kill the turtle he gains a defense buff and for the Benthic an HP-regen buff. As long as you avoid killing these two he goes down pretty fast.

  • YllmathirYllmathir
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    edited August 10
    xy44 wrote: »
    Yllmathir wrote: »
    With your damage you should reach 30th floor or such.
    My ranger with karasha and full elite seals reach 20th floor (11.5k+2950 crit.dmg and 50% crit in spire) so uhm.. maybe your approach is wrong?

    Anyway should be attack*crit multiplier + flat crit.dmg.
    I don't remember the multiplier but should be around 2.5 or 3x.

    I dont understand how my approach can be wrong though.. at least I figured that at beginning. - I zoom through the first 15 like a speeding bullet, before It slows down then once I hit Pirate King it slows down considerably. - Im using all my available attacks so its not like Im just stabbing away with one attack. - My defence is fine as I dont get hit often. Im constantly attacking.. so yeah.. really not sure.

    When in spire, my crit is always about 1.5-2k dmg, then super crit of 57-70K damage constant.. (more and less depending on what attack used)

    Ur crit dmg should be higher if u wearing exalted with good legendary seals.
    We are talking about 6k+ for crit dmg.
    Maybe you focused too much on pure dps and left a part crit. damage.

    As mentioned before, pirate king can be a little tricky if u kill adds before. This fact doesn't help on certain skills since we cannot use many of those which are high damaging.
    Many players get rift buffs, priest buff, food which raises int, someone use also 2xInt pots, m.atk tincture, def tincture, max health tincture, cooldown tincture when they go for a performance run. Someone uses also stygea buff (dunno which one).. Without these buffs a good character can still perform quite good, but for sure u run out of time early.

    Optimize the run could be another way for getting past certain floors. I mean, if at the summoner there are many copies of him left when u kill him, don't spend too much time for kill them all, same for laikus when heppens to have them not in line of sight and such. It's important killing all adds for getting more points, but 30s here, 20s there, 40s here and u wasted 1min 30s which sometimes helps to pass to an higher floor.
  • xy44xy44
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    edited August 10
    well I nothing of these buffs you mention.

    I do use Riceballs III for extra int.. and obv the spire potions on each floor. - Its always the same for me.. even now. I get to 430K points and time runs out. - Im consistant!! that I can say, considering I always have 3 mins exactly when I enter Ice Golum stage (floor 27)

    What is the rift buff? and how can you use 2 int pots? I thought one overwrote the other?

    I like to think I have good gear.. (as of today) I have 23K Dps, 6K Crit dmg, 95% crit rate, -50 Cooldown, all my gear is double stat Intel (Mostly) all temperd to +17 for the extra 2% bonus. weapon is Ex bow, with great intel/crit dmg attack stats and temperd to +23 - and yest I still fail.. so its not the gear.. its me. - there must be something Im missing, not doing correctly, I just dont understand what!....yet

    Oh and for the record, I did try the Pirate king as you suggested, not killing the adds, and to be honest.. didnt really make much difference.

    Sometime.. somehow.. Floor 28 Awaits me!

  • KaikoonKaikoon
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    edited August 11
    xy44 wrote: »
    and how can you use 2 int pots?

    There are 2 different types of int pots that dont overwrite eachother: there are the pots from the Shops (lower lvl can be crafted as well), like intricate or premium intelligent potion... those would overwrite eachother, but you can Combine each 1 of those with the local intelligent potions, e.g. hermit town or golden Peak int potion.
    the local int pots come from quests and are bound. Those from Akrat quests are the highest.

    For the buff Food, you can Combine even 3 of them. for the crafted ones you can always Combine a Food with a drink. Soup Counts as drink while roast or riceball Count as Food. you can Combine them with the buff foods from questing, eg Lotus Leaf Rice.

    Riceball III + Bone Soup III + Lotus Leave Rice = 150 int + 90 Int + 70 int .... ( the Lotus leave Rice you can replace with Grilled Holy Dragon Feast which gives 200 int. when you cast the grilled holy Dragon feast while still eating Lotus leave Rice you can have them both. this you can not do with eating Dragon feast first.)

    Lotus Leaf Rice Drops from shady warren or you can get them from 3 quests that are 20 times repeatable in elgaden or 1 quest 20 times repeatable in elino.
    The Holy Dragon feast you currently get only 6 from 1 quest, or buy very overpriced in the AH.

    side note for priest and lolly: you only get the willpower Versions of all those quest Foods and pots (in ellora sanctuary and upwards). only wizard and ranger get the int Versions.


    and @xy44, out of curiosity... do you have this 95% crit rate outside or inside spire with the minus 40% debuff?
    Flutskop
  • xy44xy44
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    edited August 11
    Ok I see what you mean. @kaikoon thanks for a detailed answer, sadly I cant get the hermit ones anymore, they were nice on the travel from 55 to 60, but cant get them now from any daily's ive come across. unless Im missing something?

    I did not check what my crit rate is inside spire. - so that stats I mention above are all outside. - but I always hit crit shots. as I always follow the numbers (the best I can) plus its a audio change if I dont crit adn would notice.
  • W00H00TW00H00T
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    edited August 30
    There's a -40% debuff to magic crit % while in spire. The 5 min tincture only raises that back up 20% I believe. Ideally as a ranger, you want to be maxed at 95% crit while in spire (and yes it does make a difference). A suggestion would be to watch some Ranger spire runs and pay particular attention to the timer. Compare your checkpoint times to their runs and see where you're falling behind and which floors are eating away at your time.

    Just to give you an idea, the previous top Ranger in Teleo (Kalas) was completing FL 30 spire while in full Karasha gear (before exalted was released) with just over 18K DPS unbuffed. I'm not nearly as good and still have troubles beating 30. An alliance mate of mine is now reaching over 700K points using Exalted with mostly heroic seals +140-150 OA and Sealed Calyptos). It has a lot to do with the rotations you use, the tactics you employ on each floor and of course your gear/talent tree.

    Good luck!
    daeni
  • xy44xy44
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    edited August 30
    Yeah Im with you there. - I really struggled with spire early on, up to a month ago now : ) when I first started this thread . but I found my way since, now can get to a happy place.. can clear 30 np. the rest.. not so much yet - bearing in mind Im still on Karasha gear, with ex bow/vambrace... But the hardest level for me still is the ice gollum, Barados, rondo after that etc is fine. - i just dont like being slowed... doesn't agree with me lol. 2 times at least of the weekly spire I die there.. if I pass it, then the rest is sweet sailing. - My fav level is 28 or 29? barados.. as a ranger there is somethign SOOO satisfying about killing all the ice witches/rangers frost kings with aoe attacks!

    I found turning auto skill off really helped (so I can control how fast I attack), and a 20% cooldown trinket, so I can spam my attack (cant rem name that lowers enemys defence) then use big attacks right after > kite while on CD.. rince and repeat.
    daeni
  • AxeliseAxelise
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    edited September 6
    Ok, in general, for crit damage vs overall attack, overall attack is going to be more useful in PvE scenarios, crit damage is better in PvP. All the bosses in spire have a "thick skin" passive which greatly reduces crit damage. Also overall attack increases the damage of DoTs like "Flight of the Raven" whereas crit damage does nothing for those things. Another question, is what are your talents, and what's your rotation cause yeah, with that DPS you should be clearing F30, or at least F29 (fully buffed for spire, food, int pots, rift, priest tincture, I'm sitting at 25.8k and clearing F30 usually). Also the little things make a big difference in spire, like having your pet on auto-loot, killing bosses while standing next to the portal to just run through. Also buff pets (Scallada, Windrunner, or Yvoke + Magma hound, Troy, or Grudd); for stacking magic attack buffs.