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Discussion on current patch (25 Aug)

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  • RhyavRhyav
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    edited August 25, 2016
    I decided to hold my comment until I could actually test the changes applied to the game... Well, if I had posted earlier my comment would've been much more generous than these changes deserve.

    First, not sure if it was miscommunication between Nexon and WeMade or WeMade screwed up (because, if I'm not mistaken all the changes to our version are made by WeMade) but the nerf to Explosive Shot on PvE was completely unnecessary and made Crossbow downright useless. Missing mobs 10 levels under you 50% of the time with ANY skills!? Seriously?

    Second, as a Priest, great! Now instead of being one-shot by ES in the Badlands now Assassins actually have to use Moonlight blade and kill me in 3 seconds with my full Heroic Seals set. Beautiful. Not to mention I already had really low damage but could kill a distracted Assassin, now I can't even do that because I deal HALF OR LESS damage than I used to. So now Priests are even MORE useless.

    So basically, following traditions, this patch is ridiculous and PvP has not been fixed at all. It's not about skill, it's about getting lucky to find a person you have "advantage" on or you're screwed.

    To be honest I don't know if the chart is even working or not, as it's hard to see any difference when you die in 3 seconds.
    MeliteSpunkidKesstrylTimeSeerKoakuhHellser
  • HellserHellser
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Rhyav
    Rhyav said:

    I decided to hold my comment until I could actually test the changes applied to the game... Well, if I had posted earlier my comment would've been much more generous than these changes deserve.

    First, not sure if it was miscommunication between Nexon and WeMade or WeMade screwed up (because, if I'm not mistaken all the changes to our version are made by WeMade) but the nerf to Explosive Shot on PvE was completely unnecessary and made Crossbow downright useless. Missing mobs 10 levels under you 50% of the time with ANY skills!? Seriously?

    Second, as a Priest, great! Now instead of being one-shot by ES in the Badlands now Assassins actually have to use Moonlight blade and kill me in 3 seconds with my full Heroic Seals set. Beautiful. Not to mention I already had really low damage but could kill a distracted Assassin, now I can't even do that because I deal HALF OR LESS damage than I used to. So now Priests are even MORE useless.

    So basically, following traditions, this patch is ridiculous and PvP has not been fixed at all. It's not about skill, it's about getting lucky to find a person you have "advantage" on or you're screwed.

    To be honest I don't know if the chart is even working or not, as it's hard to see any difference when you die in 3 seconds.
    Speaking of explosive shot...still getting 1 hit by assassins regardless of the 75% reduce chance its more like a -20% chance and posion shots the new Explosive dealing 1 hit capble shots to low defence classes
  • ShadowerEXEShadowerEXE
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Just logged on and tested my damage on a berserker, I might as well be a priest with daggers.
  • CaLewisCaLewis
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    edited August 25, 2016
    This entire game revolves around getting heroics, whether or not you can seal them, but especially if you can seal them and have one on all your gear. That's what makes buying a mark p2w (especially if one is a 100% success mark). That's obvious, common sense tbh. They might as well put max level triple stat weapons in ellora's shop. The gold worth of some sealed heroics and triple stat gear is pretty similar, sometimes equal.

    Would you rather them give out free heroic marks to satisfy people, or just make crafting easier? Many of them are not easy. Karresh is not simple farming; it's spamming dungeons that we'll all tired of doing by now, dailies for 10 days unless you want to buy the rest, which we shouldn't have to do. If you have alts you can get enough from dailies in 4-5 days, but then you also have to get 4 abyssal coatras. If any merumi tears drop from your run, you still have to compete with 3 other people. Since you have a 1 in 4 chance, that's 1 in 4 runs, so you would need to do about 16 runs before you might get enough marks. 17 runs to use your last mark and tame it. 17 runs of CoV, and 20 LLC runs, plus 10 dailies. I sure hope none of your marks fail you; elites fail sometimes too. Let's not forget all of this is for a level 38 heroic that will probably fail to tame anyway. So all of this you have to spend time on, just for one mark that will probably fail because the odds are against you. For Caspert, you're still against rng for over 10 CoV runs, and you have like a 50% chance to get a merumi slab (if two drop, it's 1/4 plus 1/4 which is 2/4), so that's about 20 CoV runs before you get 10, hoping you got a Radan's Tear at some point too. For the Chillwall Rune, I'm pretty sure you have to do world bosses to get the mortal tears-and you need 2 of them-which defeats the whole purpose of crafting it instead of just doing world bosses to get marks.

    In any case, we're better off going for world bosses than taking the time to craft these marks, which makes for the crowding at all of the world bosses. The problem is that crafting is way too inferior to farming world bosses. The big guilds can have their advantage, but it shouldn't be that much easier for them. Crafting should at least be worth the effort, and it's not. Not particularly when everything you're doing is for a ridiculously low rng chance. That's why a lot of people who aren't in big guilds quit, and Nexon tries to resolve it by handing out marks to everyone instead of fixing the root of the problem.
    MeliteCorevusTimeSeerKoakuhShadow_AlchemistKamenRiderIcarus
  • MeliteMelite
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    edited August 25, 2016
    CaLewis
    CaLewis said:

    This entire game revolves around getting heroics, whether or not you can seal them, but especially if you can seal them and have one on all your gear. That's what makes buying a mark p2w (especially if one is a 100% success mark). That's obvious, common sense tbh. They might as well put max level triple stat weapons in ellora's shop. The gold worth of some sealed heroics and triple stat gear is pretty similar, sometimes equal.

    Would you rather them give out free heroic marks to satisfy people, or just make crafting easier? Many of them are not easy. Karresh is not simple farming; it's spamming dungeons that we'll all tired of doing by now, dailies for 10 days unless you want to buy the rest, which we shouldn't have to do. If you have alts you can get enough from dailies in 4-5 days, but then you also have to get 4 abyssal coatras. If any merumi tears drop from your run, you still have to compete with 3 other people. Since you have a 1 in 4 chance, that's 1 in 4 runs, so you would need to do about 16 runs before you might get enough marks. 17 runs to use your last mark and tame it. 17 runs of CoV, and 20 LLC runs, plus 10 dailies. I sure hope none of your marks fail you; elites fail sometimes too. Let's not forget all of this is for a level 38 heroic that will probably fail to tame anyway. So all of this you have to spend time on, just for one mark that will probably fail because the odds are against you. For Caspert, you're still against rng for over 10 CoV runs, and you have like a 50% chance to get a merumi slab (if two drop, it's 1/4 plus 1/4 which is 2/4), so that's about 20 CoV runs before you get 10, hoping you got a Radan's Tear at some point too. For the Chillwall Rune, I'm pretty sure you have to do world bosses to get the mortal tears-and you need 2 of them-which defeats the whole purpose of crafting it instead of just doing world bosses to get marks.

    In any case, we're better off going for world bosses than taking the time to craft these marks, which makes for the crowding at all of the world bosses. The problem is that crafting is way too inferior to farming world bosses. The big guilds can have their advantage, but it shouldn't be that much easier for them. Crafting should at least be worth the effort, and it's not. Not particularly when everything you're doing is for a ridiculously low rng chance. That's why a lot of people who aren't in big guilds quit, and Nexon tries to resolve it by handing out marks to everyone instead of fixing the root of the problem.
    I agree, and frankly at the end of the day it's cheaper and more time efficient to buy a mark than attempt to craft or do world bosses hoping you can get one of the 1-3 marks that drop if you manage to get a 10 m group together that can kill them. Even with a guild that has plenty of people and all the timers, you show up and kill the bosses, but you still the rng on what marks drop and then you have to hope that of the 3 zerks and 4 sins you get the 1 mark that dropped for your class.

    it's all a mess - handouts don't fix it - crafting is awful - world boss farming is tedious, time consuming, and generally camped by big guilds. This doesn't even begin to explain the mess that comes after you do manage to get a mark.
  • mandrosmandros
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    edited August 25, 2016
    In RoM, lvl 35 Guardian mounted, missed a Yeti Hunter 14 times in a row. REALLY?!? Who's the moronic genius that decided to screw mounted combat this bad?

    EDIT: I can live with the ES nerf, I can't live with the massive misses to mobs that are 10+ levels lower than I am.

    EDIT 2: I find it sadly funny that I literally can't hit the broadside of a wall more than 2 out of 10 shots in RoM now...
  • NXACuddlesNXACuddles
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Good day, Riders! I had a moment to look over this thread and they are noted. In addition to items mentioned, I would like to get some insight on how we can improve PvP Gear and make it more useful other than for taming the Heroic Mounts.

    Have at it and let me know what your ideas are! :-)
    MeliteBobTheBlobxLanayaxRhyavHellserKesstryl
  • xLanayaxxLanayax
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    edited August 25, 2016
    image

    Good day, Riders! I had a moment to look over this thread and they are noted. In addition to items mentioned, I would like to get some insight on how we can improve PvP Gear and make it more useful other than for taming the Heroic Mounts.

    Have at it and let me know what your ideas are! :-)
    To start, lower the amount of materials required to craft the PvP gear, make it bind on equip and not bind on pick up, and make manastone weapons 100% chance to craft instead of having a "low" success rate. Additionally, although most likely not going to happen, make the PvP gear heroic, giving it an extra line of random stats or guaranteeing 1-2 seal slots to place sealed familiars in.
    NXACuddlesRhyavTacticalBwconKoakuhShadowerEXE
  • MeliteMelite
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    edited August 25, 2016
    image

    Good day, Riders! I had a moment to look over this thread and they are noted. In addition to items mentioned, I would like to get some insight on how we can improve PvP Gear and make it more useful other than for taming the Heroic Mounts.

    Have at it and let me know what your ideas are! :-)
    Hi CuddleWings - happy to know this is being reviewed!

    My biggest question is to what extent pvp damage/defense/resist actually effects player versus player combat. I have seen a difference in combat versus the mobs out in Badlands, but I haven't noticed anything significant against other players.

    The biggest concern is the excessive material requirements not meeting the stats on the gear. It's a lot like wearing level 35 elite gear in general, which to be fair is actually elite gear, but the PvE gear seems to be more effective in combat versus other players than the PvP gear does. If the PvP stats were going to make a difference in combat out in the badlands people would be more inclined to wear in. On the same note, however, my personal opinion is, PvE stats need to be almost worthless in PvP in turn meaning that the stats rolled onto PvP gear should be all PvP stats rather than generic PvE stats.

    Hopefully all that made sense - it was a little difficult to process in my brain when I typed it.

    At any rate - the biggest thing for me is that the gear is all BoP and the material requirements being a bit high for what the gear actually provides.

    I do think the heroic manastone weapons success rate needs to be adjusted - not necessarily 100% but definitely a higher success rate. Losing your 2 faded souls which could take a min of 1 week to earn depending on your guild/alliance would just hurt to lose.

    I think that Ulrix's suggestion on some kind of participation currency is pretty brilliant and would give smaller guilds/alliances a way to earn the materials needed to craft their pvp weapons so they can compete properly.
    NXACuddlesTimeSeerKoakuh
  • n0van0va
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    edited August 25, 2016
    As for the pvp, i agree with getting rid of mounted combat in pvp.

    A simple, fix for mostly all balancing issues for pvp is for players to only do a percentage of how much they would normally hit for (affecting all classes.) Maybe somewhere around 60-80% damage, while disabling HP potion usage. Bandage usage is okay. This way, if someone does a long combo on someone, there will still be a good chance that the other guy can at least fight back, regardless of class.

    Priests will also be positively affected, as their healing would almost be a necessity in group vs group situations because of the hp potion restrictions. Furthermore, people wont do as much damage to each other, thus inderectly buffing priests' ability to heal people (pvp damage will be reduced, but priest healing values would remain the same).

    A scenario in which the priests gets attacked by an assasin, 60-80% dmg might still be fatal, but that damage reduction would make it longer for the assasin to kill him/her; someone who sees the priest getting attacked would then have enough time to get the assasin off the priest.


  • SnapybSnapyb
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    edited August 25, 2016
    One thing you can do about the pvp armor is reduce the cost to craft it so it is more readily available to people to use, right now it costs way to much and takes way to long to grind out the mats to craft it and then end up with terrible stats and bad slot numbers. So when you compare it to your heroic gear with good stats and 2 slots its just not worth it period.
    @cuddlewings
    Melite
  • CrowFan01CrowFan01
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    edited August 25, 2016
    I agree with the no mounted PvP stuff. There are just too many that sit at max altitude and reign down from above while you are sitting there farming. I am always in the no fly zone for this reason. At least on ground mounts you can see enemies coming. Overall though I feel stronger and more versatile on foot with my pet out so ideally I would love PvP to be mount free. Doubt they would implement this however.
  • GriselbrandGriselbrand
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Mounted combat is one of the key selling points for many people to be playing this game otherwise why wouldn't they go play any one of the thousand other mmo's that has generic Class vs Class PvP with no variety sure the mounted combat abilities in PvP are proportionately more Unbalanced than anything else( assassins included). I do believe there should be zones where mounts of any kind are not allowed and ground combat can be played out between characters but should be in SELECT zones only and not cover more than an 4th of the overall PvP Region. As for a thought to people camping the 2 towns/cities in the PvP region I believe that when you leave the safe zone you should have a buff applied to you where you essentially can't be attacked and can't attack for say 10 seconds or so giving people a chance to escape the frenzy outside safe zones. This is just my 2 cents on a few topics I've seen now as to another topic that's kinda off point in this thread are the Heroic Marks....I find that the ones in the shop now do not provide a pay2win aspect because they are not 100% success and they are not 100% what you want or need and in response to people saying "they sell the sealed familiar for loads of money and makes gold waaaaaaa" well what happens if they fail the tame? My point is someone who farmed 60 marks and then got the tames and sealed them still have the same taming RNG chance as someone who bought 60 marks from the shop(lol if anyone's wondering thats 354,000 NX or $354 USD).

    Example #1: I recently won the lottery and I buy 600 marks then fail 600 times
    Example #2: I'm a hard working casual player who has spent 6 weeks and farmed 600 marks then fail 600 times

    Now which one of them now is winning? Neither now lets ask ourselves why? Because they both have horrible RNG and no amount of $ will ever change that(unless Cuddle's taking bribes now lol jk). So the whole "I farmed for 6 days straight for my karresh mark and failed waaa boohoo I mean more power to ya for farming 6 days. The person who bought a mark also worked outside of the game IRL for the money(usually) and deserve the chance just as much as anyone in the game to tame. These are my final thoughts for now do with them as you wish but remember Stay Salty ;)
    WildLavender
  • MeliteMelite
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Griselbrand

    Mounted combat is one of the key selling points for many people to be playing this game otherwise why wouldn't they go play any one of the thousand other mmo's that has generic Class vs Class PvP with no variety sure the mounted combat abilities in PvP are proportionately more Unbalanced than anything else( assassins included). I do believe there should be zones where mounts of any kind are not allowed and ground combat can be played out between characters but should be in SELECT zones only and not cover more than an 4th of the overall PvP Region.
    Fair enough, though it is unbalanced and it needs to be adjusted in a way that isn't going to effect PvE - that's one of the biggest issues we're facing right now. Sure it's nice not to get 1 shot off your mount for people who are undergeared, but they can still get 2 shot and most people who enjoyed having their mounted combat useful in PvE now find it much less useful and they may as well be on the ground. What happens in the next zone when we have to fight bosses in the sky but everything from our mounted combat has been nerfed and we're having trouble leveling.

    This is what we're attempting to discuss here and hopefully find a good way that can resolve issues in both PvP and PvE without one affecting the other.
    Griselbrand


    now as to another topic that's kinda off point in this thread are the Heroic Marks....I find that the ones in the shop now do not provide a pay2win aspect because they are not 100% success and they are not 100%
    Actually, 1 of the heroic marks you receive in the package is 100% - the fated heroic mark.
    I'm not here to discuss any p2w aspect of this though, like I said earlier. I am more wanting to address the issue of having 1000000 marks on every character and all those people attempting to tame all at once. They aren't doing anything to combat the issue of too many people taming, the lag is a huge issue no matter how great your computer or connection.Even with the changes on the spawn timers it's still ridiculous, especially at Apoc.

    Basically their attempts to help people gain the heroic marks they had trouble with just flooded the system with heroic marks and then they added boxes to buy more heroic marks with RL$ - seals are out of control on the market, up about 50g ea since I made the OP. The full growth familiar potions are selling over 250g ea right now and it's expected that both of these will just continue to climb in price.

    At any rate, as I have said - I've never intended to talk about anything being p2w or not in regards to these heroic marks.
  • chanw4chanw4
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Seriously, if you are being gate camped you have no one but yourself to blame. No need to add invulnerable buff to anyone since there's way too many method to avoid gate camping.
    Melite
  • CaLewisCaLewis
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    edited August 25, 2016
    "The person who bought a mark also worked outside of the game IRL for the money(usually) and deserve the chance just as much as anyone in the game to tame."
    Based on this argument, you just support pay2win in general and most people don't. If you could just buy first place in the Olympics, it wouldn't be a competition and frankly it would be pointless. MMO games are competitions, PvE and PvP. They're meant to be about skill and achievements; that's what makes it fun. If you buy everything you're suppose to earn in the game, you'll run out of things to do pretty fast. Those people are the first to complain about lack of content and wonder why there's nothing to do.
  • RedeamousRedeamous
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    edited August 25, 2016
    Nerf PVE gear buff PVP gear... ( in the PVP zone ) rid of the class inbalances except for the major opponent like Gauardian Vs Assasins and 25% seems fair... see where that goes... leave the imbalances to the way people slot and and choose gear.... seems a very simple solution to a simple problem
    Melite
  • PinkPink
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    edited August 26, 2016
    PvP class gaps has been widened this patch :/
  • WildLavenderWildLavender
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    edited August 26, 2016
    They also put a limit on how many boxes you can buy, so it pans out I suppose. It's just an extra chance. Plus, since everyone has had their chance at the heroics, it's actually calmed down at some mounts. Nobody at Kerav, and mellow at Karresh.
  • KillXIIIKillXIII
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    edited August 26, 2016
    I'm shocked how much mounted combat got screwed for PvE... 0-1/10 hits on mobs that are 10 lvls weaker than me, really?
    Rewind the changes and simply turn off mounted combat for PvP area.
    I was happy when I read the producer's letter but now I'm disappointed. The only good thing (even with OP not liking it) is the reduced spawn time for heroics. It gives people who aren't online for 24 h/d more chances taming one.
    But the current sales suck much. People with money can buy taming marks, special skins and a Pegasus now -.- Stop screwing F2P people and saying this game isn't P2W!
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