[ATTN NEW RIDERS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
Closed

[POLL] Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll

Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
Posts: 163
Member
edited January 19, 2017 in General Chat
From http://icarus.nexon.net/en/news/article/20320/ellora-s-shop-update-for-january-18th

Wow! I remember this being suggested a couple of months ago. Thanks again to all mods, dev team and Nexon for listening to our feedback and suggestions.

I just have a couple of questions regarding the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll. According to the description "this item cannot be used on pets that cannot normally be tamed in the world (ex: pets from Tritael Rift Pet Lucky Box)", but what does that mean exactly? For example, if I have a pet Diaguul, which is an Ellora's Store exclusive not available anywhere in the world, will the scroll turn it back into a mount or it literally just work for mounts/pets tamable in the world?

Also, it has "bestiary" in the name. Does it mean that if, for example, buy a sealed Femuto, extract it into a lvl 1 pet and turn it back into a mount with the scroll it'll add it's entry in my bestiary? Or will it just become a mount and I'd still have to tame one to get it's bestiary entry?

Any help answering those questions would be extremely appreciated, @Cream and @Cuddlewings :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The discussion about the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll have evolved past what is written above. So for those still wondering, here are the answers to the questions above:

1 - As long as the pet has a mount form, like Diaguul or Enjani for example, the scroll will turn them back into mounts even if the text is a bit confusing.

2 - Yes, as of now the scroll DO unlock the bestiary entry for familiars tamable within the world.

The discussion now is on whether the bestiary should or should not unlock bestiary entries for familiars tamable within the world. In my personal opinion, I think they should NOT unlock entries. The main point of the game is to tame familiars and if unlocking thos entries is too easy, the game might lose it's appeal. I also agree by limiting the scroll by level, as suggested by @Yllmathir and @Cream. Quote from @Cream below:

//OK, so far we can say that it will be a better option if the following conditions are met for the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll;

1- Level (progress) and/or account restricted (there is a character on the account that has unlocked the region in question).
2- Not available to new accounts (until certain level is met and restriction #1 is met.
3- No Bestiary goal attained form this method.

This is just a quick grasp of what has been mentioned here. Please, state more suggestions and ideas to understand better our community standpoint. //
From this comment: http://forums.icarus.nexon.net/discussion/comment/59667/#Comment_59667

As per request, I'll add a poll so everyone can vote for or against the scroll unlocking bestiary entries.
CreamDuanaHyuliaGrizzlyUKGeodoiditoNeoraOctoberStormKamenRiderIcarusDraconiya
  1. Should the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll unlock bestiary entries?41 votes
    1. No
       44% (18 votes)
    2. Yes
       56% (23 votes)

Comments

  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    For the first part, it counts for all the box pets, as for example you can't turn a bismuth pet into a mount.
    Second part, would be interesting but that would be op.
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    I know it doesn't work on pets that exists only as pets. My question if it works on Ellora's Store mounts that were turned into pets or, as it's in the description, only on mounts tamable in the world. That's why I used the pet Diaguul as an example.

    Being OP is not really applicable here but I get what you're saying. I really don't know how I feel about it if it does unlock the bestiray entry. You'd still have to tame one to get the achievement and title but I guess it'd make things too easy. I'll have to think about it some more before reaching a conclusion.
  • CreamCream
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 22,260
    Posts: 3,872
    Forum Moderator, Council Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    I will work on your request, Rider! I agree that more information is needed, indeed. Thank you for the post.

    Have a nice day!
    Menegroth_SusejNeoraKesstryl
  • DragonEnchantressDragonEnchantress
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,665
    Posts: 125
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    If you buy a femuto then extract it the familiar is not registered in your beastary as caught. I can't see why it would suggest to you that giving it a larger, more rideable, form would change that any. I'd understand wanting that feature but it sounds too cheaty of a thing for them to promote lol it would kill the purpose of having to tame anything at all and sort of break the value of the rewards for taming all things in a region imo
    Aellae
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    DragonEnchantress

    If you buy a femuto then extract it the familiar is not registered in your beastary as caught. I can't see why it would suggest to you that giving it a larger, more rideable, form would change that any. I'd understand wanting that feature but it sounds too cheaty of a thing for them to promote lol it would kill the purpose of having to tame anything at all and sort of break the value of the rewards for taming all things in a region imo
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Get two random Heroic familiars from the Parna’s Coast, Tritael Rift and Cloying Wastes regions!"
    Familiar Master Package III now in the shop, and you say that feature would be cheaty?
    The pets have at least been tamed befor in game.
    Menegroth_SusejNeora
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
    Posts: 1,040
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    With all respect for the devs but... What a stupid thing is this? New player can sell nxplus things, make gold, buy sealed pets and convert it into a mount? Without even the need to put effort in taming? O.o

    Bynder coins will definitely kill the crafting or farming for old elites, which was already bad due to many rift/parna's boxes from Legendary. Basically, I can just buy 30.000NX and complete the bestiary by getting marks which for the others took a month or two for completing them? *Clap clap*
    Just remove crafting at this point 'cause it's very insulting for those who put time and effort in farming recipes or golds for buying very rare elite marks, or in any case which spent lot of time for completing the bestiary.
    Ah, forgot.. Remove also the recipes from drop tables, at this point there is no reason to get them from loot.

    What's the next step? Give us directly new mounts for NX?
    We only wanted a more fair taming process, less random and more fun. Speeding up things will also make the game shorter. Once I've completed all the things in very short time, what's next? Getting bored?
    You guys are ruining a beautiful game you know?
    Kesstryl
  • DragonheartDragonheart
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,340
    Posts: 88
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    This Feature should also be sold for ellunes...
    Neora
  • daenidaeni
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 4,825
    Posts: 502
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    If they do count as part of the bestiary would this really be as bad as them giving away random heroic mounts in the previous past daily or special rewards? ( ' Special Heroic Marks' ) Granted those were 'random' but they still counted as part of it.
    Or is it any different than the 'fated' marks you already get for failing 10 times?
    Buying them from the market still costs you no matter what is thought here. Whether it's gold or time whats the difference? Or now NX?
    the market already has issues, some things are way over-priced, others just not worth the time to sell.
    Menegroth_Susej
  • VaelanVaelan
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,910
    Posts: 211
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    I hope this is not in the Bestiary. Garme costs 10 gold sealed. I tamed him at 40 with Just a Gladiator as a Partner while I was on my Guardian. It was an epic fight and I felt a real sense of achievement when I finally put my Molten Skin on him. He looked great! I hope this is just an awesome perk, because it is awesome. I can't wait to check it out and get some mounts, but there are some that give you that rush of triumph only a tame can give.

    In short I love it! Great idea. Hope it doesn't devalue collecting Mounts like Garme that are an epic tame.
  • GrizzlyUKGrizzlyUK
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 5,125
    Posts: 638
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    According to the description for the scroll:
    Turn your pets back into mounts! The Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll allows you to convert an existing Heroic or lower ranking pet into a normal mount. This item cannot be used on pets that cannot normally be tamed in the world (ex: pets from Tritael Rift Pet Lucky Box). This item cannot be traded.

    I think the key part is the first sentence which clearly states "Turn your pets back into mounts" which I think means if the pet was originally a mount then the scroll will work, but if the pet has no mount version then the scroll will not work. So, in theory, a pet Diaguul would be turned back into a mount but a pet Cloudhorn Ram would not be affected by the scroll. Please do note that this is just my understanding based on the description and is, therefore, subject to correction when Nexon provides more detailed information.
    Menegroth_Susej
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Proven to count for bestiary, the ingame description even says that it adds to the bestary.
    Menegroth_SusejKesstrylOctoberStorm
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    GrizzlyUK
    GrizzlyUK said:

    According to the description for the scroll:
    Turn your pets back into mounts! The Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll allows you to convert an existing Heroic or lower ranking pet into a normal mount. This item cannot be used on pets that cannot normally be tamed in the world (ex: pets from Tritael Rift Pet Lucky Box). This item cannot be traded.

    I think the key part is the first sentence which clearly states "Turn your pets back into mounts" which I think means if the pet was originally a mount then the scroll will work, but if the pet has no mount version then the scroll will not work. So, in theory, a pet Diaguul would be turned back into a mount but a pet Cloudhorn Ram would not be affected by the scroll. Please do note that this is just my understanding based on the description and is, therefore, subject to correction when Nexon provides more detailed information.
    That's how I think it works as well, but the wording makes it confusing. I asked for some official clarification before I bought the scroll. It'd really suck if I had to discover for myself that they literally meant it only works for mounts that can be tamed in the world.

    Well, I guess that's how it is then. Like @Rele said above, at least they were tamed once before. And if you think about it, new players won't be able to fill their bestiaries as they won't have much gold. But veteran players can do that for their alts, so this is a ncie thing for altholics like me. In my personal opinion, I'd prefer if they didn't count for the bestiary. I'd like the scroll to be a feature to make it possible to give a new alt some awesome Cloying Wastes mounts they can keep forever instead of changing mounts all the time.
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
    Posts: 1,040
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Quote @daeni :
    If they do count as part of the bestiary would this really be as bad as them giving away random heroic mounts in the previous past daily or special rewards? ( ' Special Heroic Marks' ) Granted those were 'random' but they still counted as part of it.
    Or is it any different than the 'fated' marks you already get for failing 10 times?
    Buying them from the market still costs you no matter what is thought here. Whether it's gold or time whats the difference? Or now NX?
    the market already has issues, some things are way over-priced, others just not worth the time to sell.
    End Quote
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RoI is supposed to be based on taming, collecting and such. If you let players BUY it, or you become a greedy company, or you don't really care about the game experience your players will have after these changes.
    I could buy all marks, but after that.. what? Something which should have kept me busy for a month, magically is already done. I could easily get bored sooner than "you" which maybe are spending his time in doing the whole process collecting marks from AH or recipes and going to craft by yourself. More satisfing for sure.
    Shortcuts aren't always a good solution to make players happier, could have side effects and for sure at this point the market will suffer once more.

    Turning a pet into a mount it's something which shouldn't be possibile in any way, UNLESS you have already tamed it. In this case nothing wrong since you already passed through the taming process, maybe failing or maybe not, but you did it, you crafted marks or you bought from AH but you did it.
    But as new player being able to sell NX plus to make golds, then letting him/her buy a sealed pet then this magic tool has no sense.
    Many of us had a certain sense of satisfation after taming familiars, sometimes Nexon gave us free marks, even fated, but hell we did a lot of things in order to get those familiars which we liked more or the one which were very needed and suited for our classes.
    Removing this process can only kill the game 'cause it's the main feature offered from RoI.. TAMING + Sealing + Improving.

    Tell me why a new player should be able to ride Panos (or whatever pet/familiar someone can like from Desert) at level 10? Wasn't supposed to be one of your goals to get the mounts you like in this game? At least they limited it at heroic, otherwise would be a very crazy move from the staff.
    I'd be ok if the option was active once already one character into the account had unlocked the pet, so you can just send the seal to your alts and let them turning the seal into a mount. Since you already tamed him, you already had "fun" or "hard time" getting him, no reason to your alts to redo the whole process. Could have sense in this case. But for someone which didn't nothing in game, giving such shortcuts can be very dangerous for the game.

    In addition the description says "will be added into your bestiary", so you can easily buy seals and complete bestiary by paying. *clap clap*
    Don't make the rest of the players stupid? Instead to fix the taming, they simply add an option which give you the shorest way to collect all pets without the failing sensation. That's good! It's true, I will never experience Caspert throwing me off, but for those which took 8 tries will be a slap in their face.
    I repeat, I don't care what ppl do with their money, but on the long way this feature will be a bad move for the game itself.
    DragonEnchantress
  • daenidaeni
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 4,825
    Posts: 502
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Yllmathir
    Yllmathir said:

    daeni
    daeni said:

    If they do count as part of the bestiary would this really be as bad as them giving away random heroic mounts in the previous past daily or special rewards? ( ' Special Heroic Marks' ) Granted those were 'random' but they still counted as part of it.
    Or is it any different than the 'fated' marks you already get for failing 10 times?
    Buying them from the market still costs you no matter what is thought here. Whether it's gold or time whats the difference? Or now NX?
    the market already has issues, some things are way over-priced, others just not worth the time to sell.
    RoI is supposed to be based on taming, collecting and such. If you let players BUY it, or you become a greedy company, or you don't really care about the game experience your players will have after these changes.
    I could buy all marks, but after that.. what? Something which should have kept me busy for a month, magically is already done. I could easily get bored sooner than "you" which maybe are spending his time in doing the whole process collecting marks from AH or recipes and going to craft by yourself. More satisfing for sure.
    Shortcuts aren't always a good solution to make players happier, could have side effects and for sure at this point the market will suffer once more.

    Turning a pet into a mount it's something which shouldn't be possibile in any way, UNLESS you have already tamed it. In this case nothing wrong since you already passed through the taming process, maybe failing or maybe not, but you did it, you crafted marks or you bought from AH but you did it.
    But as new player being able to sell NX plus to make golds, then letting him/her buy a sealed pet then this magic tool has no sense.
    Many of us had a certain sense of satisfation after taming familiars, sometimes Nexon gave us free marks, even fated, but hell we did a lot of things in order to get those familiars which we liked more or the one which were very needed and suited for our classes.
    Removing this process can only kill the game 'cause it's the main feature offered from RoI.. TAMING + Sealing + Improving.

    Tell me why a new player should be able to ride Panos (or whatever pet/familiar someone can like from Desert) at level 10? Wasn't supposed to be one of your goals to get the mounts you like in this game? At least they limited it at heroic, otherwise would be a very crazy move from the staff.
    I'd be ok if the option was active once already one character into the account had unlocked the pet, so you can just send the seal to your alts and let them turning the seal into a mount. Since you already tamed him, you already had "fun" or "hard time" getting him, no reason to your alts to redo the whole process. Could have sense in this case. But for someone which didn't nothing in game, giving such shortcuts can be very dangerous for the game.

    In addition the description says "will be added into your bestiary", so you can easily buy seals and complete bestiary by paying. *clap clap*
    Don't make the rest of the players stupid? Instead to fix the taming, they simply add an option which give you the shorest way to collect all pets without the failing sensation. That's good! It's true, I will never experience Caspert throwing me off, but for those which took 8 tries will be a slap in their face.
    I repeat, I don't care what ppl do with their money, but on the long way this feature will be a bad move for the game itself.

    hm, good point.
    i guess we'll have to wait and see if they do get added to the bestiary.

    Also, just to point it out, not many ppl can afford to buy a Panos seal, If they can then maybe they already have it in their bestiary and this would not be an issue.
    more than likely they are part a one of those super guilds that make it a point to get their guildies every mount they have the ability to spam attack. money isn't their problem.

    You are right, this game is all about taming mounts, and they really should try and fix the taming issues.
    But anyone that is familiar with code and trying to fix or find errors knows that this might but a lengthy time-consuming wait on our parts. Maybe this scroll will be offered for only a short time to placate those of us that post in frustration about the fails.
    Something to add to the already growing controversy that this game inspires.

    You are also always going to have those ppl that want short termed gratification, the easy way out. that too is human nature we can't avoid by ignoring it.
    I'm glad to say I'm not one of those. I enjoy the thrill of acquiring those familiars that i struggled to get through the frustration and angst this game also supplies. Also i rarely seal them just as a reminder of what i accomplished.
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
    Posts: 1,040
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    @daeni
    Panos can cost you a premium service sell from the NX Plus. Isn't such a high price. You need to be level 7-8 to reach the capital or simply buy the premium with portable market and use it from the starting area even at level 1.
  • daenidaeni
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 4,825
    Posts: 502
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Still costs real money, not something that can be shrugged off for some out there that do F2p.
    Not many would do this unless they really wanted it and again, this is not something that you'll be able to stop.
    If there is a way those that must have will find it.
    Not going to get into a pissing off contest here for something that may be hypothetical.
    But this strays from the topic. Can anyone as of yet verify that it does add to the bestiary or not? All this angst may well be for nothing.
    Menegroth_Susej
  • CreamCream
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 22,260
    Posts: 3,872
    Forum Moderator, Council Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Hello Riders!

    I've been gathering information from the comments on this thread and I am curious about one thing; What about adding a level restriction to the scroll? In this manner it will prevent players from having unrestricted access to higher level content mounts as @Yllmathir mentioned "Panos". This also will prevent a level one player from obtaining a high level Bestiary completion reward that will possibly create and imbalance in the game.

    Please, let me know your thoughts and ideas and thank you in advance, Riders

    Have a nice day!
    Menegroth_SusejKesstrylNeoraDragonEnchantressZephirus
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Cream
    Cream said:

    Hello Riders!

    I've been gathering information from the comments on this thread and I am curious about one thing; What about adding a level restriction to the scroll? In this manner it will prevent players from having unrestricted access to higher level content mounts as @Yllmathir mentioned "Panos". This also will prevent a level one player from obtaining a high level Bestiary completion reward that will possibly create and imbalance in the game.

    Please, let me know your thoughts and ideas and thank you in advance, Riders

    Have a nice day!
    I believe just removing the bestiary entries from the scroll is enough. What got me excited about the scroll was exactly the possibility to send end game mounts to my alts, as an incentive to play them more. That way we'd still have to tame them in order to complete the bestiary but can still give awesome and useful mounts to our alts. After all, only veteran players will have the gold to buy expensive seals in order to do this.

    @Cream , what about my first question? Can I transform a pet Diaguul back into a mount with the scroll?

    @daeni, it's been confirmed. It does add the transformed mount to the bestiary.
  • NXACuddlesNXACuddles
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 36,945
    Posts: 1,493
    Administrator
    edited January 18, 2017
    Good day, Rider. Yes, you can unseal pets, convert them into mounts and they will count towards your bestiary as long as they are tamable in the world. The scroll does not work on pets from Lucky Boxes because they is no mount version available to convert it to.

    I miss the quote feature working... Q.Q

    Menegroth_SusejNeora
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    image

    Good day, Rider. Yes, you can unseal pets, convert them into mounts and they will count towards your bestiary as long as they are tamable in the world. The scroll does not work on pets from Lucky Boxes because they is no mount version available to convert it to.

    I miss the quote feature working... Q.Q
    So, just to clarify, as long as the pet has a mount version, the scroll will work, right?
    I used Diaguul as an example because it is an Ellora Shop exclusive heroic mount that can be turned into a pet.
This discussion has been closed.