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[POLL] Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll

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  • NXACuddlesNXACuddles
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 36,945
    Posts: 1,493
    Administrator
    edited January 18, 2017
    Menegroth_Susej

    image

    Good day, Rider. Yes, you can unseal pets, convert them into mounts and they will count towards your bestiary as long as they are tamable in the world. The scroll does not work on pets from Lucky Boxes because they is no mount version available to convert it to.

    I miss the quote feature working... Q.Q
    So, just to clarify, as long as the pet has a mount version, the scroll will work, right?
    I used Diaguul as an example because it is an Ellora Shop exclusive heroic mount that can be turned into a pet.
    Yes this is correct, Rider.
    A pet Diagul can be converted back into a mount. :-)
    Menegroth_SusejNeora
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
    Posts: 1,040
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    @Cream
    I think that restriction could be "Already unlocked in this account". As someone else said, we could enjoy alts even more but giving that to your new players isn't the right path to take IMHO.
    It's only my point of view, I don't gain or lose nothing from this so I could care less, but since I like RoI I wouldn't like to see the game turn into a "wallet game".
    I mean, taming should be one of the goals in the game, making shortcuts for newcomers isn't so good.
    CreamMenegroth_Susej
  • CreamCream
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 22,260
    Posts: 3,872
    Forum Moderator, Council Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    OK, so far we can say that it will be a better option if the following conditions are met for the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll;

    1- Level (progress) and/or account restricted (there is a character on the account that has unlocked the region in question).
    2- Not available to new accounts (until certain level is met and restriction #1 is met.
    3- No Bestiary goal attained form this method.

    This is just a quick grasp of what has been mentioned here. Please, state more suggestions and ideas to understand better our community standpoint.

    Thank you Riders!

    Menegroth_SusejDragonEnchantressKamenRiderIcarus
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 18, 2017
    Cream
    Cream said:

    OK, so far we can say that it will be a better option if the following conditions are met for the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll;

    1- Level (progress) and/or account restricted (there is a character on the account that has unlocked the region in question).
    2- Not available to new accounts (until certain level is met and restriction #1 is met.
    3- No Bestiary goal attained form this method.

    This is just a quick grasp of what has been mentioned here. Please, state more suggestions and ideas to understand better our community standpoint.

    Thank you Riders!

    I thinkj this is the perfect solution. That way we can still give them to our alts without ruining the experience for new players.
    KamenRiderIcarus
  • NeoraNeora
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,080
    Posts: 22
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    I'm good with the idea that u have to get to a certain level but not with the idea to remove the bestiary goal.

    U have to think about it that someone has to tame the mount before there even can sell it gold has to be farmed too and dont forget about the seal extrator money for the scroll doesn't grow on trees either.

    So i think its fair enough that u can get a few mounts with it because not every one got the money to buy enough of this scrolls for every single heroic mount lol so leave it like that. ^^

    Its the normal konzept of a f2p game that u can complete things faster with cash shop items.

    Its sometimes frustrating but thats how it works so deal with it. :3
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    About the bestiary entry thing, this gets broken in a guild when you just pass the mounts around, resealing them inbetween till everyone got them all, especially for Voknos, Vegarus.

    Tho removing it now is already not an option, most got the stuff they want now anyway.
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
    Posts: 1,040
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Quote @Rele
    About the bestiary entry thing, this gets broken in a guild when you just pass the mounts around, resealing them inbetween till everyone got them all, especially for Voknos, Vegarus.

    Tho removing it now is already not an option, most got the stuff they want now anyway.
    ------------------------
    They save lot of golds in this way, they could easily get the reward for collecting all heroics/elites.. Isn't normal in a game based on TAMING.
    Marks could become less valued (more than now) since large guilds can simply pass the same seal and get achiev/collections way too easy.
    No a normal game wouldn't allow this kind of things. Restrictions like the unlocked in the account should be put 'cause isn't fair.

    @Neora
    Large guild but also normal players have plenty extractors and seal stones for heroics. They really grow under trees.
    As Rele already said, in a large guild everyone can easily complete hardest heroics without effort and with a bit of organization they can send one player for each heroic and the whole guild will seal/unseal till they have done, then suddendly they all will have the new pet from bestiary and new rewards from collections (karasha armor piece, elluns, full growth potions and such) just by passing to each other the same pet sealed / extracted and so on.
    I could do it with friends too, but what's the sense to remove one of the primary goals of RoI? Many people spend their time in game by farming, collecting mats or mounts. Should be part of the fun of this game, in this way you remove it totally by creating shortcuts which will affect also mark's market.
    Today you need 2-3 even more marks to tame the same creature since you can fail, adding this option make players advantaged in many ways:
    1 . No failure in taming;
    2. You allow them to save thousands of golds since there is no fail, you just need few Heroic Seal Stones and Extractors which are quite cheap;
    3. You allow them to achieve goals way too fast with the risk that ppl will have less contents to enjoy till the next content release;

    Devs are free to do what they want, but there are free to play games which can be still remembered from many of us and there are some which only gained fame to have been greedy and died too fast.
    Even if F2P games gain from paying users, doesn't mean that the MAIN FEATURE must be related to real money.


    *Edit*
    Side note..
    Many players have already bought mounts for 120$/€ + value.. Do you guys really think that they wouldn't prefer to invest 39$/€ to easily complete their collection? Be realist please.
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    I got one thing to add,
    the Mercurius pet from the Bestiary collection is not rly worth it
    slightly more def/hp than juma, but no % crit, and same % dmg,
    while you need to capture Shakiba the normal way, which is probaply the hardes/most expensive.
    CreamNeora
  • CreamCream
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 22,260
    Posts: 3,872
    Forum Moderator, Council Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    @Menegroth_Susej

    Hi!
    Could you please add a poll to the OP, this would aid the discussion even further. It could be with 2 options as far as keeping or removing Bestiary goal.

    Thank you, Rider!
    Kesstryl
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Cream
    Cream said:

    @Menegroth_Susej

    Hi!
    Could you please add a poll to the OP, this would aid the discussion even further. It could be with 2 options as far as keeping or removing Bestiary goal.

    Thank you, Rider!
    Done. :)
    Cream
  • GeodoiditoGeodoidito
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 850
    Posts: 35
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Well first of all I am glad that you can't buy this scroll with elluns, that would be a bad idea.

    Familiars are supposed to be tamed so if you dont want to tame you have to buy the Scroll with real money.

    "Should the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll unlock bestiary entries?" I have to say yes to it, although I do not entirely agree, I just think players will buy this scroll more if it unlocks bestiary entries.
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Geodoidito


    I just think players will buy this scroll more if it unlocks bestiary entries.
    Add to that, players who can't play much can at least finish the collection someway.
    GeodoiditoNeoraOctoberStormDuana
  • OctoberStormOctoberStorm
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,730
    Posts: 121
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Greetings Folks,

    I’ve been skimming through the discussion and I’d like to chime in with thoughts.

    Firstly, I don’t mind at all that the scroll adds the mounts to a person’s bestiary for several reasons:

    The player must pay for the feature and it will get really expensive as they try to complete more than one mount (unlocking 10 mounts will cost them almost 40 real dollars). I think this is the most compelling support for me. They can choose to release a “for elluns” version, for those asking, but perhaps an elluns version should minus the bestiary perk.

    I am not really a market person, but it might actually help rejuvenate the market for seals. For those that spend the time to craft marks for heroics, it can be quite saddening to only sell the seal for 23 gold or less :(

    If someone wants to pay their way into their bestiary for their game, makes no difference to me. I can play how I like and they can play how they like.

    It gives access the mounts some users may otherwise feel alienated from. Like I have members in my guild that will NEVER touch the PvP zone. That means that unless they get lucky in the lair, they won’t be seeing any of the badlands mounts. This way, those of us that do, can run in…grab the seal and give it to them so that they can have the mount they want AND it counts for the Bestiary since they won’t be getting it otherwise.

    It doesn’t count for legendaries, so in higher level areas they STILL have to tame. They can only pay their way up to a certain point. I completely agree with the fact the scroll does not work on legendaries. Perhaps they may release a scroll later that works on them, but I suspect it will be incredibly expensive.

    As others have stated, some bestiary completions don’t even really offer the best rewards…so no real loss.


    That being said, there are some things I would agree with/suggest:

    I agree that it should be based on areas that a character has already explored (although one must also note that monthly events can still grand new characters mounts from areas they can’t/or haven’t gotten to)

    For the new accounts, restricting it to area already limits their ability to buy/use the scroll. I’m not sure a new account restriction is necessary, but sure…why not. I will say, though, that I find new account limitations obnoxious in games. I’ve walked away from games that blocked me from content simply for being new.

    Another suggestion for those that are concerned about bestiary completion (this isn’t my stance, again…I think it’s a great perk), is to limit how many bestiary mounts can be completed. So, they can buy the scroll as much as they want, but perhaps only the first 3-5 for an area will count…the rest they have to get the “old fashioned” way. This is just a suggestion to include both sides of the coin. Either way, I feel the bestiary option should stay (and its already released so…)

    Trying to limit my "wall of text", but hopefully that makes sense.

    October <3
    NeoraCreamDuana
  • HyenaHyena
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 850
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    Can someone tell me if i can seal the Grim Kargyle (from the "Legendary grim riders package") from my Zerk, send it to my Ranger and convert it into a mount again? :o
    Because on Steam it is written: "Limit 1 Legendary Grim Rider's Package per account"
    I want that Kargyle so badly on my Ranger :( But i dont know if that works with him :/
    Or is he may not be tradable if he is sealed??

    ( sry for my bad english ._.' )
  • suzshisuzshi
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 885
    Posts: 40
    Member
    edited January 19, 2017
    If someone wants to pay $4 USD to use this method to unlock a single bestiary entry, how does it hurt any other player in any way at all?
    All they get from the unlock is maybe the collection completion rewards that they've been wanting to finish, and those aren't tradeable and they really don't give any advantage at all compared to players that run legendary dungeons in groups and do PvP (yet I bet these are the guys always worried about someone paying for some imaginary advantage) . Maybe they just want a mount they will never get any other way because they just want to collect the stuff and not do parties or pvp and don't have time to play all day. Plus someone sold their seal in the market as well to this player, so it helps the economy a bit.
    DuanaNeora
  • KamenRiderIcarusKamenRiderIcarus
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,285
    Posts: 96
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    My stance on this is very much no Beastiary Completion on this item or a heavily limited form of completion at the very most.

    One of the games Win Conditions is "Tame All Da Things", and allowing people to pay for completing this condition (as it's measured by how complete your Beastiary is) is in essence, Pay to Win. Yes, you still have to obtain a sealed version of that familiar - which may or not be easy depending on the server your on and the familiar you want - and the extractors to turn that seal into a pet can be earned in game, or bought with in-game earned Ellun, but that pet doesn't give you the Beastiary achievement, so why should this? Because your guaranteed to have to pay money for it? Again, that's P2W.

    The argument of "Well, it doesn't affect me" I find a tad flawed. Even though, compared to other P2W items (such as Fated Lucky Boxes) this is the least intrusive P2W item I've seen so for (In terms of directly impacting the way non-P2W players tame), that doesn't stop it being P2W and could start a slippery slope of more P2W items, and more intrusive items being added to the store if it's popular and keeps the P2W element. Also, there's a chance that it COULD affect you later on, in the long run. By basically being able to pay for completion, then you can pay for all the perks completion gets you - like the exclusive pets.

    To be honest, I wonder if a good solution to this is not only to remove the Beastiary Completion mechanic but to also change it from NX to Ellun, 'cause it's just the opposite of the extractors in a way. If not, removing the Completion element is enough.
    Kesstryl
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    KamenRiderIcarus

    My stance on this is very much no Beastiary Completion on this item or a heavily limited form of completion at the very most.

    One of the games Win Conditions is "Tame All Da Things", and allowing people to pay for completing this condition (as it's measured by how complete your Beastiary is) is in essence, Pay to Win. Yes, you still have to obtain a sealed version of that familiar - which may or not be easy depending on the server your on and the familiar you want - and the extractors to turn that seal into a pet can be earned in game, or bought with in-game earned Ellun, but that pet doesn't give you the Beastiary achievement, so why should this? Because your guaranteed to have to pay money for it? Again, that's P2W.

    The argument of "Well, it doesn't affect me" I find a tad flawed. Even though, compared to other P2W items (such as Fated Lucky Boxes) this is the least intrusive P2W item I've seen so for (In terms of directly impacting the way non-P2W players tame), that doesn't stop it being P2W and could start a slippery slope of more P2W items, and more intrusive items being added to the store if it's popular and keeps the P2W element. Also, there's a chance that it COULD affect you later on, in the long run. By basically being able to pay for completion, then you can pay for all the perks completion gets you - like the exclusive pets.

    To be honest, I wonder if a good solution to this is not only to remove the Beastiary Completion mechanic but to also change it from NX to Ellun, 'cause it's just the opposite of the extractors in a way. If not, removing the Completion element is enough.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The definition of P2W is that you can spend real money to gain something ingame normal players can't,
    and getting the bestiary completed is nothing a normal can't do,
    you're also not getting any advantage over normal players by using this scroll,

    case closed, no P2W.
    Neora
  • KamenRiderIcarusKamenRiderIcarus
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,285
    Posts: 96
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    Rele
    Rele said:

    KamenRiderIcarus

    My stance on this is very much no Beastiary Completion on this item or a heavily limited form of completion at the very most.

    One of the games Win Conditions is "Tame All Da Things", and allowing people to pay for completing this condition (as it's measured by how complete your Beastiary is) is in essence, Pay to Win. Yes, you still have to obtain a sealed version of that familiar - which may or not be easy depending on the server your on and the familiar you want - and the extractors to turn that seal into a pet can be earned in game, or bought with in-game earned Ellun, but that pet doesn't give you the Beastiary achievement, so why should this? Because your guaranteed to have to pay money for it? Again, that's P2W.

    The argument of "Well, it doesn't affect me" I find a tad flawed. Even though, compared to other P2W items (such as Fated Lucky Boxes) this is the least intrusive P2W item I've seen so for (In terms of directly impacting the way non-P2W players tame), that doesn't stop it being P2W and could start a slippery slope of more P2W items, and more intrusive items being added to the store if it's popular and keeps the P2W element. Also, there's a chance that it COULD affect you later on, in the long run. By basically being able to pay for completion, then you can pay for all the perks completion gets you - like the exclusive pets.

    To be honest, I wonder if a good solution to this is not only to remove the Beastiary Completion mechanic but to also change it from NX to Ellun, 'cause it's just the opposite of the extractors in a way. If not, removing the Completion element is enough.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The definition of P2W is that you can spend real money to gain something ingame normal players can't,
    and getting the bestiary completed is nothing a normal can't do,
    you're also not getting any advantage over normal players by using this scroll,

    case closed, no P2W.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'd still argue it's still P2W, as it's allowing to complete a Win Condition in theory without doing any work- you buy all the mounts as seals, unseal them and then mount them - and/or gain all the Beastiary Entries at a MUCH faster rate. This gives you an advantage over other players who may have to take months taming the actual familiars and the rewards having all the familiars gives you (titles, collection pets). Many definitions of P2W also include if the item/s in question allow you complete a difficult task in a much faster time than somebody who's not paying, which this can do. As I've said, it's not the worst P2W Icarus has used but it should still be called out to avoid the slippery slope.

    Either way, it still gives players an unfair advantage as of now. it allows you to buy some of the best mounts in-game and gives you all the rewards taming it would do. While the functionally of a mount restorer is a good thing, giving all the rewards taming the mount in the wild does is unfair to those who put effort into taming.
    Kesstryl
  • ReleRele
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,850
    Posts: 395
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    KamenRiderIcarus



    I'd still argue it's still P2W, as it's allowing to complete a Win Condition in theory without doing any work- you buy all the mounts as seals, unseal them and then mount them - and/or gain all the Beastiary Entries at a MUCH faster rate. This gives you an advantage over other players who may have to take months taming the actual familiars and the rewards having all the familiars gives you (titles, collection pets). Many definitions of P2W also include if the item/s in question allow you complete a difficult task in a much faster time than somebody who's not paying, which this can do. As I've said, it's not the worst P2W Icarus has used but it should still be called out to avoid the slippery slope.

    Either way, it still gives players an unfair advantage as of now. it allows you to buy some of the best mounts in-game and gives you all the rewards taming it would do. While the functionally of a mount restorer is a good thing, giving all the rewards taming the mount in the wild does is unfair to those who put effort into taming.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    The rewards are not worth it compared the price, while you can buy better pets / mounts straight from the shop.
    NeoraMenegroth_Susej
  • Menegroth_SusejMenegroth_Susej
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,560
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    Hyena
    Hyena said:

    Can someone tell me if i can seal the Grim Kargyle (from the "Legendary grim riders package") from my Zerk, send it to my Ranger and convert it into a mount again? :o
    Because on Steam it is written: "Limit 1 Legendary Grim Rider's Package per account"
    I want that Kargyle so badly on my Ranger :( But i dont know if that works with him :/
    Or is he may not be tradable if he is sealed??

    ( sry for my bad english ._.' )
    Sadly, it's not possible to seal the Grim Kargyle.
    Hyena
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