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[POLL] Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll

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  • KamenRiderIcarusKamenRiderIcarus
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 2,285
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    edited January 20, 2017
    Rele
    Rele said:

    KamenRiderIcarus



    I'd still argue it's still P2W, as it's allowing to complete a Win Condition in theory without doing any work- you buy all the mounts as seals, unseal them and then mount them - and/or gain all the Beastiary Entries at a MUCH faster rate. This gives you an advantage over other players who may have to take months taming the actual familiars and the rewards having all the familiars gives you (titles, collection pets). Many definitions of P2W also include if the item/s in question allow you complete a difficult task in a much faster time than somebody who's not paying, which this can do. As I've said, it's not the worst P2W Icarus has used but it should still be called out to avoid the slippery slope.

    Either way, it still gives players an unfair advantage as of now. it allows you to buy some of the best mounts in-game and gives you all the rewards taming it would do. While the functionally of a mount restorer is a good thing, giving all the rewards taming the mount in the wild does is unfair to those who put effort into taming.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    The rewards are not worth it compared the price, while you can buy better pets / mounts straight from the shop.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Eh, I see a point there, but it would say that it would be highly subjective to the player's class and playstyle when making that decision.

    Casting P2W aside, It's still unfair to allow people to basically buy Beastiary achievements. If the devs wanted this sort of thing, they would have had this functionally from the moment you could unseal seals and turn them into pets. But they didn't, so why have that functionality here? The point of the Beastiary is to show the effort you've put into taming all the familiars in all the areas. Using an item that costs real money to do that, without taming a familiar first, diminishes the Beastiary's overall value. And on that point alone is why we think the Beastiary achievement should be removed from this item.

    Annnnnnnd I feel that's enough of that. I think I've said everything, and I hope the item get's patched on the 25th or with this Sandstorm update coming up.
    VichallKesstryl
  • NeoraNeora
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 1,080
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    edited January 20, 2017
    This item is not p2w its only that u can complete ur collection faster and some people said it before its a good solution for people who have not much time for farming the mounts because of work etc.. so this people can get there collection as fast as someone who can farm the whole day.

    The rewards are really not that good and u even dont get the title so if u want the titles too u have to tame them again isn't that enough?

    And the thing with "Player's will get bored after completing there collection" sry but isn't this a thing that everyone can decide for there self? A good tip from my side is take the hardest ones with the scroll and the ones that not so hard tame them by youreself so u got the best of two worlds. ^^
  • KesstrylKesstryl
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    edited January 20, 2017
    I'm not going to lie, I did buy one because Karresh really hates my main, and now I have all the heroics I needed in Parna, and only need to work on the rest of the ones I didn't get. Yes I felt like I was cheating when I did it. I will not be doing it again. Yes I still think it's pay to win. Yes I just paid to win, something I'm pretty much against. Thank you for making me a hypocrit. I will not be sad to see this go, or at least not complete the bestiary. My other alts will have the satisfaction of completing their bestiaries the right way.
    CreamFuzFuzoverreactive
  • KibbleKibble
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 950
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    edited January 21, 2017
    My vote is yes keep the scroll as it is. I love this addition and could finally obtain the mount that I really wanted. There was no way I was going to get this mount in the PVP area and the months on end of running the Lair hoping for it to pop has been very frustrating.

    Sure some people will spend a few NX to get some mounts but I don't believe anyone will blow their paychecks to complete whole bestiaries like some here are eluding to. This addition greatly helps the player that can't spend hours online in game such as myself. Being able to get a desired mount here and there is what will help keep people in the game and not totally frustrated and leave.
    NeoraDuanaoverreactive
  • suzshisuzshi
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 885
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    Member
    edited January 21, 2017
    "I worked sooooo hard for my Garme because I don't actually have a job, everyone else needs to suffer"

    Something that you can get either IN GAME by farming hours a day, or BUY by working hours a day in a real job is in no way ever a P2W.

    Nobody is barred from getting the thing, and maybe some of you just need a job and other real world obligation so you stop going on about insignificant things like a stupid single bestiary entry. Anything that gives you a real advantage and is not available in the game is P2W - like say the Legendary mounts and even then its in no way an advantage over the same 30-40 people I see taming the heroics all day every day, and getting all the legendary drops from the dungeons.
    FuzFuzNeoraoverreactive
  • YllmathirYllmathir
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 7,315
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    edited January 21, 2017
    Personally I'm farming for days to get Panos for my sweet half. We crafted/dropped Loustrous Cats x15, 45x Panos's Gold Bar, 24x Rat Meat and orbs. We made a total of 5 marks, failed all of them (41% taming buff on - Taming Potion Boost 10%, New Year Talisman 10%, Premium 10%, Event 10%, Seal Supreme 1%).
    With this scroll system I could simply buy a lv1 panos's seal and turn him into a mount. To me isn't the proper way to get mounts.
    As I always said, would be better to improve Taming System instead. At certain point you could start to think that the devs made this scroll thinking "Instead to fix taming, let our players struggle in pain and frustration till they buy the scroll".
    So, no to me it's not the right path to take.

    For those who said: "The rewards are not worth it compared the price, while you can buy better pets / mounts straight from the shop." I can tell that if I'd sold all those marks or mats on AH I could easily raise up plenty of money, even more than those which I could do by selling a Premium Service which cost almost 3x times the Mount Scroll. So yes, it's very convenient this scroll.

    If the staff would keep the scroll that's my suggestion:
    1st - No Restrictions:
    but no bestiary/collection/title and such;
    2nd - Level Restrictions:
    In order to convert the pet into a mount you need to have a level >= to max seal level (Hakans: 30, Parna: 35, Rift: 40, Coloying Wastes: 50);
    3rd - Account Restriction:
    You can convert back into a mount only those familiars already tamed in the normal way in your account, which make you (alts) elegible to perform this action;
  • FuzFuzFuzFuz
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 775
    Posts: 58
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    edited January 21, 2017
    Yllmathir
    Yllmathir said:

    With all respect for the devs but... What a stupid thing is this? New player can sell nxplus things, make gold, buy sealed pets and convert it into a mount? Without even the need to put effort in taming? O.o
    A new player can sell nxplus things, make gold, buy karasha gear, buy sealed heroic/legendary. Without even the need to put effort in playing.
    Sorry man, but *that* is P2W.
    And you guys are really complaining to some bestiary entries, that give NO real advantage whatsoever?
    Please. It's a milder form of P2W. Not such a big deal.
  • GrizzlyUKGrizzlyUK
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 5,125
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    edited January 22, 2017
    Kesstryl
    Kesstryl said:

    I'm not going to lie, I did buy one because Karresh really hates my main, and now I have all the heroics I needed in Parna, and only need to work on the rest of the ones I didn't get. Yes I felt like I was cheating when I did it. I will not be doing it again. Yes I still think it's pay to win. Yes I just paid to win, something I'm pretty much against. Thank you for making me a hypocrit. I will not be sad to see this go, or at least not complete the bestiary. My other alts will have the satisfaction of completing their bestiaries the right way.
    -------------My reply to the above quote is below-----------------
    Not quite sure whether you're blaming Nexon for adding this scroll to the shop or yourself for lack of self-control. *shrug*

    Seeing all these comments about how using this scroll to convert a pet back into a mount will add the familiar to your Bestiary if it's not already been added being, apparently, some sort of Pay to Win item! Seriously? What on earth is anyone "winning" by adding a few entries in their Bestiary via this scroll? Does it give those players some sort of weird advantage over those who don't make use of the scroll? If this scroll is P2W then so are all those Talismans, Lucky Boxes, packs that include pets and/or mounts, in fact most of the items in the shop could therefore be classed as P2W as they each give the purchaser some sort of "advantage" over others who don't buy them.

    When all is said and done, it simply breaks down to this: If you don't like this scroll then don't buy one!

    Frankly I couldn't care less about other players Bestiary entires, I have more than enough to deal with on my own characters!

    Seriously folks, take a step back and give this some thought. If you believe this Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll is a P2W item then you must also believe that many other items in the shop are also P2W. Sorry but you simply can't pick and choose what you class as P2W because the same criteria you use to classify something as P2W can also be aplied to many other items! Have you purchased one of the legendary familiars from the shop? Well that's a P2W item because it gives you an advantage over those who don't buy one.

    Heh, just tossing the argument around a little to, hopefully, show how easily this could be twisted out of control! ;)
    DuanaKanzeonNeora
  • NeoraNeora
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    edited January 23, 2017
    I hope we see the legendary scroll soon too because of the new pvp mounts the t rex like one is legendary and if there are as hard to get as Pyludd, Megantes and Vylet we REALLY need them.

    Keep up the good work riders of icarus. <3
    Menegroth_SusejRele
  • KesstrylKesstryl
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    edited January 23, 2017
    Another way to solve this could be limiting how many scrolls can be bought per account, like with other things. That way no one can buy their way up the bestiary, but a couple things could be added for those having a hard time with certain tames.
  • GrizzlyUKGrizzlyUK
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    edited January 24, 2017
    Why are players so concerned about how other players complete their Bestiary entries? Why do you see the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll as any different to purchasing a Lucky Box that gives a chance at receiving a random familiar that also completes the relevant Bestiary entry when learnt? If you consider the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll a P2W item then you must also consider the Familiar Master Package III (and other such items) as P2W as that gives TWO random Heroic familiars from the Parna’s Coast, Tritael Rift and Cloying Wastes regions which will complete the relevant Bestiary entries when learnt!

    If you don't like something in Ellora's Shop then simply do not purchase it! If any specific item is considered as P2W because it gives the purchaser an unfair advantage then you have to apply the same criteria to everything in Ellora's Shop as each item gives the purchaser some sort of "unfair advantage" over those who choose not to purchase an item. This could also be expanded to include the Monthly Reward Writs as they give players the chance to select a familiar that will complete the relevant Bestiary entry when learnt! How about familiars earnt from the Daily Log-in Rewards? Where does it stop?

    If using the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll to convert a pet into a mount is restricted to prevent the player gaining the relevant Bestiary entry then so too must any familiar learnt via any means other than taming be restricted in the same way. In other words, the ONLY way to complete the Bestiary would be by actually going out and taming familiars. Any familiars acquired via any other means would NOT complete the relevant Bestiary entry. Is this really the way you want it done? Think very carefully about this before you answer.
    Neora
  • KesstrylKesstryl
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    edited January 24, 2017
    "
    GrizzlyUK
    GrizzlyUK said:

    Why are players so concerned about how other players complete their Bestiary entries? Why do you see the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll as any different to purchasing a Lucky Box that gives a chance at receiving a random familiar that also completes the relevant Bestiary entry when learnt? If you consider the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll a P2W item then you must also consider the Familiar Master Package III (and other such items) as P2W as that gives TWO random Heroic familiars from the Parna’s Coast, Tritael Rift and Cloying Wastes regions which will complete the relevant Bestiary entries when learnt!

    If you don't like something in Ellora's Shop then simply do not purchase it! If any specific item is considered as P2W because it gives the purchaser an unfair advantage then you have to apply the same criteria to everything in Ellora's Shop as each item gives the purchaser some sort of "unfair advantage" over those who choose not to purchase an item. This could also be expanded to include the Monthly Reward Writs as they give players the chance to select a familiar that will complete the relevant Bestiary entry when learnt! How about familiars earnt from the Daily Log-in Rewards? Where does it stop?

    If using the Heroic Bestiary Mount Scroll to convert a pet into a mount is restricted to prevent the player gaining the relevant Bestiary entry then so too must any familiar learnt via any means other than taming be restricted in the same way. In other words, the ONLY way to complete the Bestiary would be by actually going out and taming familiars. Any familiars acquired via any other means would NOT complete the relevant Bestiary entry. Is this really the way you want it done? Think very carefully about this before you answer.
    "

    It's about other players having an unfair advantage. This gets to be a real problem in PvP. Players that can get collection mounts, or just buy the best mount will have an advantage over another who didn't or couldn't. I have a problem with that. I refuse to PvP in this game because of this huge imbalance of paid having advantages over unpaid. The writs and logins are different because everyone has a chance to get that. I would rather see costumes or reskinned mounts found in-game in the cash shop than anything that gives unfair advantages that allow a player to buy their way intead of playing their way. Why not just make a cash shop only MMO in that case and just let people buy everything, including buying the quests completions.
  • ANGRY_riderANGRY_rider
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 915
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    edited January 24, 2017
    Some of you are very confused about the p2w definition. As far as I know there is no official definition of "p2w aka pay to win".

    P2w definition is arguable but I'm leaning on it as roughly being: Paying to get a huge advantage and/or progress acceleration compared to f2p players. Let's use RoI for example. Say, if they only limited f2p players to 1 ellun per day and tempering protection costs like how it is, can you still say it's not pay to win? Some would say... yes because you can wait and grind for it - but unfortunately this is a big no. It's a complete pay to win if that happened. Sure you can grind for it, but for how long? Weeks, even months for 1 try of protected tempering? And you have... at least 5 pieces of gear to temper. By the time you get enough ellun, there will be a new gear out. And even if you waited 6 months to stack up your ellun, it's still RNG - chance for 6 months of dailies going down the drain. You will be at a heavy disadvantage then if you're a f2p player compared to p2w player.
    KesstrylMenegroth_SusejFuzFuz
  • KesstrylKesstryl
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    edited January 24, 2017
    The other thing I'd like to point out is now we are having an update where we can do something called Elora's Spire where people are competing for ranks and winning something, it's unclear right now what all that will be, but obviously the player who pays for the best mounts and best everything is going to outrank and outcompete non-paying players (even ones who are probably better at playing the game skill wise than they are). That is pay to win. Those who pay out on their gear and these scrolls can buy the best and buy their way to the top. The minute another MMO with an elaborate pet and taming system comes out that's not pay to win, I'm going. I wan't to compete with skills, not compete with credit cards.
    FuzFuz
  • NeoraNeora
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    edited February 11, 2017
    So i want to ask again when do we get the legendary Bestiary mount scroll?

  • RuniRuni
    Riders of Icarus Rep: 3,925
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    edited February 11, 2017
    Neora wrote: »
    So i want to ask again when do we get the legendary Bestiary mount scroll?
    hopefully never in the shop ;)

    Kesstryl
  • NeoraNeora
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    edited February 11, 2017
    Runi wrote: »
    Neora wrote: »
    So i want to ask again when do we get the legendary Bestiary mount scroll?
    hopefully never in the shop ;)
    I dont care where i just want them in game xD
  • ZyndaarZyndaar
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    edited March 5, 2017
    Whats up with so many people crying in their cornflakes over a digital item that has zero effect on their lives? It doesn't even have an effect on your game character in any way, unless you buy the scroll and use it.
    Sounds like some people want to control other players game experience. Get over yourselves and off your powertrip!
  • CreamCream
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    edited March 6, 2017
    We appreciate all the information/feedback provided by our Riders on this thread. This information will be forward to the proper channels in order to provide a greater gaming experience.

    Have a nice day!
    Neora
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